Blogging Assignment Week 5 - due Friday September 22 before class

For this week's blog I am looking for two things. 

First, I want you to reflect on our discussion of Gothicism and Freudian theory, and our application of said material to Jackson's text. Consider how object cathexis and/or projection work in the text, and "choose a side." Is the house experiencing manifestations of Eleanor's trauma? Or is the house truly "haunted?" Is "person cathexis" at work here anywhere in the text? In the realm of "physics," of the "physical," is cathexis possible? Why or why not? Give ample evidence (at least three instances in the text, quotes/paraphrase included) to support your argument.

Second, when you have completed your assessment, create a critical stance and state whether or not you feel that "theory" should be applied to literary texts and support your reasoning. What are the implications of applying another's theoretical writings to a piece of literature? Could this be detrimental, or could it supply us with a framework for reading? Both? State a SOLID CASE (not two or three lines like I am seeing in some of the posts). You will only receive credit if your argument is cogent and substantiated (and NOT HALF-ASSED).

I have attached a copy of the PPT to this post (click here or on the attached file to open it). More on cathexis if you're still having trouble.

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hauntingofhillhouse.ppt40 KB

I do not believe that the

I do not believe that the house is haunted at all.  I think that this is all completely inside Eleanor's head.  Eleanor is definitely starting to go insane now that her mother has died and she is out on her own.  Object cathexis plays a role in that Eleanor is projecting mental energy into making the house seem haunted, but the house also plays off her.  The house has its own type of energy that is being projected into Eleanor's mind and making her think strange things.  The whole thing has to be in Eleanor's head because even she starts to realize that it is when she is thinking to herself, on page 201, " I will never be able to sleep with all this noise coming from inside my head; how can these others hear the noise when it is coming from inside my head?"  It's hard to tell whether or not the others actually hear anything or not; or is Eleanor just thinking that they are hearing things also.  Object cathexis comes into play when Eleanor says to herself, "it's inside my head and it's getting out, getting out, getting out..."  She and the house are connected in some way to each other.  She starts to even find comfort in the house because she feels like it is finally a place where she belongs, because she was invited there.  This might be the reason why she wants to live with Theo.  However, Theo does not want her to come live with her and she expresses this very bluntly to which Eleanor responds that she has never been wanted anywhere, except by Dr. Montague, when he invited her to come to Hill House.  Another thing that might be causing this insanity that Eleanor has now come to posess is due to the fact that she killed her mother.  She didn't physically kill her, but an act of omission according to the Bible is worse than an act of commission.  Eleanor heard her mother calling for her but pretended that she was still asleep so that she wouldn't technically be responsible for letting her die.  She could have done something, but she despised her mother so much and was tired of taking care of her that she let her die.  This trauma and guilt is still with Eleanor, which is why she hears her mother calling to her in Hill House.

I do not think that theory should be applied too heavily to text.  Sometimes when you read to much into a book or story, you start to lose the whole joy and fun of reading the story.  Many books are simply meant to be entertainment and to stimulate your imagination, not to be interpretted as some type of psychology BS.  Sometimes however, books are meant to have other meanings that should be read into and explored further.  I find that this book could definitely be that way.  I never really read into the true meanings of books, but I found myself trying to do that with this book.  I think it made the story a little bit more interesting, instead of simply reading along and not understanding it.  It's a fine line determining which books should be taken literally and at face value, and which books should be "theorized" to understand their full meaning.

Cathexis

I believe that this story has many parralell points to the ideas of the power point.  When experiencing a tramatic event you are trapped in the moment.  Your reality becomes this terrifying experience.  To me this can definately support the argument that the house is not haunted but rather, it manifests it's power from personal anguish.  It is like being home alone and you hear a noise that freaks you out.  Your mind starts thingking of all the horrible outcomes that may arise from this bump in the night.  A quote that represents my poing is as follows..."...lighten the air of the blue room in Hill House with a dainty wallpaper...leaving only the faintest hint of its existence, like an almost inaudible echo of sobbing far away." (p. 40) This sproves to me that the house is feeding off of her.  It is all in the eye of the Beholder as they say.  Even if the beholder is crazy. 

I have a very strong opinion on analyzing literary works.  I believe that some of the stuff in the book is there for a reason, such as circumstances that allow for forshadowing of future outcomes.  However, some things tend to get over analyzed such as why was it a black horse instead of brown. I think in these instances the artist is just telling a story.  I think it can expand ideas of the book and it can definately allow for you to apply these hidden lessons to your life.  So i believe it can go either way.  I think that sometimes we just get carried away in analyzing texts. 

As far as I am concerned

As far as I am concerned Eleanor is nuts.  The idea of cathexis does nto make sense to me.  How is someone supposed to invest thought and energy into sometihing that can't contain energy.  It just does not make sense.  I beileve that Eleanor is fabricating this within her own head and freaking herself out.  As we talked about in class, when you are little and home alone, you hear one little tiny sound and then you start hearing EVERYTHING and your mind starts to race.  I believe I am a perfect example to Eleanor's self-infliction of this 'haunted' house.  When I was a sophomore in high school I was home alone one night and found someone breaking into my house.  Naturally like an idiot I ran and got in my car and darted out of the neighborhood.  It freaked me know... NOW being a junior in college I STILL have a little problem with being alone in a dark place.  I don't hear loud banging noises, see picnics, or hear children saying "please don't hurt me" like Eleanor does, but I do get nervous.  I am able to get myself to chill out but that is because I have control of my mind and of the things that I think.  I think that Eleanor has trouble controling her mind.  She has trouble getting herself to chill out and now that she is in the house and things have started to freak her out she is letting the house get the best of her.  She has been sheltered all her life, and that niaviness isn't helping with the sounds and sights in her head drift away any faster.

As for theories in writing, I believe that they could be very detrimental.  Writers are considered good writers because their books or stories are good books.  They are good because they are interesting and unlike any other.  I, personally, don't like reading love novels because most of them always end the same way, "and then they fell in love" or something like that.  I believe that if we read too far into the texts we will ruin the stories.

load of crap

I do not think object cathexis exists. In cases where it may seem to be happening, I think that in reality, its all just in the person's head. For instance, if a person is at home alone at night, they generally hear normal noises of the house and think that there is someone or something there. In reality, it is just the fridge or a/c kicking on. I do not think that there is cathexis in the book. I just think that Eleanor is hearing stuff in her head, as seen by her comments on pg. 201 "... How can the others hear the noise when it is coming from inside my head". I am not sure if the house is haunted or not yet, I'm still finishing the text as we speak. As for the other two examples, I've got nothing, I'm sorry,,, I had too much to drink last night.

I think that applying theory to other literary texts, more times than not, can be detrimental to the work. This is the case because we are people reading someone else's work and looking from the outside in. How can we be certain that we are fully understanding what the author meant for us to take from a work. As seen in the discussions in class, everyone takes a slightly different view on the events in the books we have read. If we then apply a theory to the book, how can we be sure that what we choose is correctly portraying the work, or if it is just portraying our view on it.

Haunted?

I think that the house is not exactly haunted, but at is playing off Eleanor’s past and mental weakness.  I think that somehow her and the house are connected. This is where the idea of cathexis comes in. There is some sort of energy is in the house, but needs a way to express it.  It is obvious that Eleanor is the one that is being targeted, and I think that Dr. Montague knows this.  On page 120 he says “Everything is worse if you think something is looking at you,” as he looks directly at Eleanor. I think that knows all about her past, more than anyone expects.   The first indication of this is when Eleanor is dreaming, and awakens, saying “Coming, mother, coming, it’s alright, I’m coming” (page 127).  Something is calling her name and she responds back unconsciously, thinking she is still back with her mother. Another example is the writing found on the wall, saying help Eleanor come home, that Luke found when he went looking for Mrs. Dudley (page 145). The third example, found on pages 192-193, is when Mrs. Montague comes to visit and uses her plancette in the nursery.  Whether this particular method of contacting the “other world” is believable or not, it does use Eleanor and home frequently.  Her thoughts also start changing as the text continues. It says on page 136, after a their first encounter with something not of this world, that Eleanor is “unbelievably happy”. On page 141, when Dr. Montague speaks about poltergeists, Eleanor “wanted to run to the head of the table and hug the doctor, she wanted to reel, chanting, across the stretches of the lawn, she wanted to sing and to shout and to fling her arms are move in great emphatic, possessing circles around the rooms of Hill House.”  Her sudden happiness about this particular subject is disturbing in a sense. Her attitude towards Theodora has changed as well.  At the beginning she enjoyed her company, even admired her.  Now, especially after the bloody clothes/writing on the wall incident, she has shown deep loathing toward Theodora.  I think that the house has connected with her mind and is starting to change her thoughts.      

The American Heritage dictionary says that theory is a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. I think that theory should be applied to some literary texts, using The Haunting of Hill House as an example.  How are we to explain all the unnatural things going on in the house without some kind of theory?  I do not think it would be detrimental to apply another’s theoretical writings to a piece of literature.  I think that everyone has his or her own theory on what is going on with Eleanor in Hill House.  I think that it theories provide framework for breaking down and figuring out the phenomena’s going on inside Eleanor’s head as well as Hill House. 

This House is NOT Haunted

In The Haunting of Hill House, the house may be scary but I truly do not thing it is haunted. Eleanor is in a world of her own of being the center of attention and having people take care of her. On page 194, Theodora says, "Nell doesn't wnat messages from beyond, Nell wants her warm bed and a little sleep." Everyone in the house treats Eleanor like she is a baby and she just feeds off it. On page 228 is an example of Eleanor's split personality. She is running up and down the hall shouting, "Mother." In her fanatasy world she seriously believes the house belongs to her and she is at home. Luke and Theodora think she is crazy. The very last part of the book on page 240 she says to the doctor, "The house wants me to stay." In real life a house could care less if you were in it or not but in her crazy mind she really feels that the house is alive and talks to her.

I do not believe in object cathexis either. I have seen shows about people bending spoons but I really don't think it is humanly possible. Just like in the book when they heard scary noises they would make up stories about what it could be. When people believe something really is true they can almost make other people around them start believing too.

I don't think there is a right or wrong theory to teach in class. I think books with different theories should be read and then let the reader decide what he or she believes in. If I picked out a book to read for entertainment and I didn't like the theories implied in the story than I probably wouldn't continue reading. On the other hand having theories to go off of can be beneficial in maybe getting a better understanding what the book is about.

I believe this to be ture. 

I believe this to be ture.  Eleanor is living in her own world.  I think that she may have the ability to force things she sees upon the others.  To me she is just plain crazy...

I would like to say first,

I would like to say first, that The House on Haunted Hill fits that quote from Sedgwik on the Gothic texts very well.  You  can see so many resemblances with what Shirley Jackson used to the examples and definitions from the powerpoint. There definetly seems to be something going on with Eleanor and the Hill House.  I guess you could say cathexis is a good definition of it.  It seemed to me that the majority of what was going on in the houes, had to do with Eleanors issues and the trauma she went through before she came to Hill House. The only thing that I cannot explain, is that if all of this was going on in her head, then why would the Doctor, Theodora and Luke all hear the noises and see everything that she did? Maybe they all had their own cathexis to the house. The Doctor said he has spent his whole life looking for this house, so why would he not invest so much enegery into this house (being the image) becuase he's been looking so hard. Theodora and Luke just seem to have their own issues and problems so having them hallucinate everything that went on, doesn't seem out of the ordinary. Since we get the "inside" look of what is going on with Eleanor, I feel it is easier to say that cathexis was occuring with her. When it came to the last few chapters of the book, I think it got into Eleanors head that the house was talking to her. By having her name written on Theodora's wall in blood and then with the planchette, I think that it all got into Eleanor's head. She had never had a place to call home, a place where she felt comfortable. So by having this "something" reconginze her, she allows her energy to go into believe that this house is for her.

In a sense I think that a cathexis is possible in the real world. Some people have so much energy that they project onto something....as you say and object. They have so much hope and thought that any idea of their 'ojbect' not existing or not being what they believe it is, causes it to become real in their eyes. It may not be to others, but some people get so worked up and "involved" into something, or an object, that they manage to make it come alive in a sense.

As for applying theory to literary texts, it aggrivates me a little becuase I personally have a tough time with it. That's generally by myself; but once we have our classes or in a group, that is when ideas start to flow. Sometimes I admit that I feel like we are tearing apart a text just with thes theories, but in the same light, you have to look at it as just a theory. You can take a theory as you want, but the author is always going to have their own meaning. Some authors purposely write a text so that it is pounded with different theories, to make people think for themselves. To have them come up with ideas and thoughts that match what they want to hear.

I agree that we are just

I agree that we are just tearing apart a text with theories and that you will eventually have and believe your own theory. It is just cool to see other peoples theories on things, because they may have you see a side of the story that you could not have seen on your own.

I agree with this point.  I

I agree with this point.  I think it is good to see how other people analyze things.  It may give you a different perspective on the text or even on life.  I beleive that we can take life lessons from these texts and it couldn't hurt to have other outlooks. 

Object cathexis

I believe that The Haunting of Hill House is a good example of object or person cathexis (projection). The house may seem to be haunted to some, but I want to suggest that the trauma Eleanor experienced as a child has come to mature thoughout the book leading her to project repressed emotion towards not only the house but the other characters.

Essentialy after Eleanor left on her own for Hill House something triggerd her repressed emotions and she began a spiraling desent into the tortured portions of her soul. Thoughout the novel we see several examples referencing her past with her mother and how she is stuck in some sort of childhood phase. For example, upon entering the library Eleanor hesitates and says "My mother-" she said, not knowing what she wanted to tell them, and pressed herself against the wall. In this case her trauma is seeping out of her unconcious to her pre-concious as she realizes there was a past problem with her but can't see why quite yet. As I read I thought Eleanor was a child in an adults body, this was emphasized numerous times like when she met Mrs. Dudly, "I think I'm going to cry, she thought, like a child sobbing and wailing.  

With this past trauma Eleanor begins to project her mangled emotions onto the others around her thus causing the notion of the "haunted house". The more she falls into her madness the more the others believe what is in her head. For example, "Its so cold, Eleanor thought childishly; I will never be able to sleep again with all this noise coming from inside my head; how can these others hear the noise when it is coming from inside my head". Eleanor continues to state that "Am I doing it? she wounderd quickly, is that me? And heard the tiny laughter beyond the door, mocking her. Essentialy Eleanor is projecting her traumatic childhood onto the others and the house. Powerd by her strong belief that these bad things are happening Eleanor forms a defense mechanism to protect her tortued ego from her past trauma. She thus sends this negative energy out of herself and onto the surrounding enviornment in a way to try to keep her sanity as her trauma explodes though the subconcious to the pre concious, the concious and then to everyones concious.

I believe theory should be applied to literary texts. Not only do I think of it as a neet way to try to explain something, but it is a helpful tool in creating a vision of how the theory could exist. I personaly don't like dry cut books about Freudian theory. In my abnormal class we just learned about him and it was less exiting than reading about this girls conciousnes and subconcious and the projection of her twisted emotions onto the house and the characters. Without theory in books we woulden't have much to really read. I mean, most books are trying to support something or another. This book in perticualr made me think of the Celestine prophacey and they object/person cathaxis it tried to show. The people followed this religion and could transfer energy between people and plants/animals. In conclusion, theorys are necessary for frameworks within literature. Using a theory is just a way to creat a good backbone for a work, like using musical structure to write (as in A Clockwork Orange with the ABA pattern).

You did a very good job

You did a very good job making those connections. I also feel that Eleanor took what circumstances she experienced as she was growing up to manifest these thoughts and sights she was seeing in Hill House. As it was discussed in class, she still sees herself as a child, becuase that is all she is use to knowing.

I believe that cathexis does

I believe that cathexis does not exsist because there is no way to process engery into an object or person. You could probably process it into an idea, but I think that would ultimately be called paranoia. Eleanor is experiencing paranoia or some other form of a psychological problem because she sees, hears, and experiences events within the house that are not there. She hears the loud banging on the door that no one else hears, she smells the putrid smell from the library that no one else smells, and she hears the laughing and crying. But how did the reputation of the haunted house begin if Eleanor is the only one imaging things? I think those who entered the house in the past had psychological problems similar to Eleanor's (i.e the father of the two little girls) and thus experienced the same kind of circumstances. The house brings out your mental problems and dramatizes them, but it is not cathexis because that does not exist.

If an author is going to use theories within their writing, they should use them very careyfully, so as not to write in the point of view of another author. Authors need to have creative minds in order to be able to write hundreds of pages of a story. I feel as though if theories were applied to literary texts they would take away from that creativity and uniqueness, in turn forces the same theories on to the readers of different texts.

I completely agree with you

I completely agree with you that authors need to be careful when using theories in their writing.  If they all use the same sort of theory it will distroy their creativity and all the books will seem the same.

I agree

I agree with ahoye that cathexis does not exist. I like how they wrote about how Eleanor hears the banging on the doors and smells the smell from the library but nobody else can.

ahoye, I dont agree with you

ahoye, I dont agree with you that people should not write in the point of view of another Author. I agree they need to have creative minds but working though a "filter" or someone elses style is creative in its own sense (kind of like making someone elses song your own by playing it differently).

Ok, as for cathexis i think

Ok, as for cathexis i think it's a load of crap.  I do think it is possible to harness a whole lot of energy and focus it into one thing but only in your own mind.  I dont buy into energy being literally passed out of one's body and into a completely different physical object.  I need facts, i need proof, and if they cant give it to me i don't believe it.  I firmly believe in the old saying, "It's all in your head."  I felt like there were plenty of times when enelnor mistaked things she thought were happening with actual events.  Such as horrible smells in the library that no one else even detected.  How about the knocking on the doors and the laughing and crying.  I didn't get the feeling that theo actually heard it, she was just frightened because of the way elenor was acting.  How come Theo was never awakened by the so called cries of a child.  It's because it was all in Elenor's head.  Think about it, if actual energy was being passed from the inside of one's body to the outside then it would make sense that others would be able to experience this phenemena. 

       As far as theories go, i am a firm believer in knowing as much as you possibly can.  If we jumped into these books and had not known anything about cathexis, gothicism or different theories, would this book be half as interesting.  I think the fun out of reading is being able to take what you know and apply it to different stories.  I think that analyzing characters and situations according to many theories makes a story moreinteresting.  The more i know about a book and the more it makes me think about what i already know, the more i love the book.  People typically hate things that they do not understand.  these theories do in fact provide a solid framework for the way we understand and look at literature.

If it was all in Eleanor's

If it was all in Eleanor's head, then why would theodora, Luke and the Doctor freak out in the last "haunting". It even says that Luke dropped the glass when the door was silently attacked. Granted, Eleanor seemed to have blacked out for most of it, but it said that Luke's shirt was ripped and stained. I think it's a hard thing to explain, but I also feel you have a valid point. I generally believe that the majority of it is in your head, and Eleanor does seem to pass off as a complete mental case.

I think that although I do

I think that although I do not believe the phenomenon of cathexsis to be true, it is possible that it took place in the book.  Authors have limitless creative license when writing, and maybe Jackson believes in the concept of cathexis, thus incorporating notions of it in this book.  I think the idea of the house experiencing manifestations of Elanor's trauma is a more entertaining way to intrpret the text, therefore I will choose that side.  I think that because we primarily are seeing things through her inexperienced and naive eyes, it is possible that the things she has suppressed and not experienced are being mentally cast into the house, giving us the picture we get.  Had the story been told through the eyes of another, the images we get would be totally different, assuming the cathexis thing is true. I do not believe cathexis to be true, again, but I have not researched it enough or even taken a physics course to have evidence to back that.

Critical Stance: The beliefs of an author are directly reflected in the writings they produce.  Just because they write supporting such an opinion, even with justification, does not mean necessarily it is true. I think this should be applied to all texts because of the creativity and control an author has on what they write.  Each person has different opinions and convictions, and it is natural for them to express them in creative ways if given the chance. It helps bring about knowledge and awareness of an issue that perhaps they are trying to bring to light. By applying another's theory to your writing, you take on the responsibility that you may be passing on incorrect or unsound information to lots of people. Theory is nothing more than an idea, a conjecture. While you are testing it, it is not something that is proven. It could be detrimental (assuming it is inaccurate), but it also could be good, because maybe the cause or thoery eventually will become a law(aka 100%truth).

i agree

I think you are right. While I do not agree with cathexis either, who's to say that Jackson does not believe in it either. If she did, she would definately make it appear in the book. It would be very interesting to see the whole book from each of the other characters points of view.

I never looked at it that

I never looked at it that way.  The book is in fact a product of someone else's beliefs.  It is possible that Jackson did in fact believe in cathexis.  This makes me wonder what kind of information was available to her about cathexis.  Was this something that she had resesarched in the past or maybe just heard about in a passing conversation.  It could have been that she had never even heard about it, and was just that creative.

so much to do, so little time....

first of all, when we did discuss freud and gothicism, i think that we didn't go deep enoguh n freud to have gained a real understanding of his theories, however we did talk much more about gothicism, which i thought was nice because i didn't know much about it and learned a lot. one thing that helped me picture what we were talking about was that we compared it so hill house, and the fact that the descriptions in the booka re extremely vivid and easy to imagine. i believe that when there is a banging on the doors(the first spiritual thing that happens) it really may just be an object cathexis of thier minds wondering and thinking about something like that happening, so it gives the house the power to actually do it. it's lkinda like freddy krueger, if you don't believe in him, he couldn't attack you in your dreams. i believe that ojext cathexis may be possible, it may simply be out of the realm of our current understanding of how our brains work, heck, we don't even truely understand sleep. examples of cathexis in the text are when the door is being banged on, the cold spot by the entrance to the nursery.

i thnk that we need to stop analyzing literary text tto thoroughly anyways, especially by not applying theories to them. we should jsut take them as they are, and what ever thoughts they evke, think about those, don't strain to come up with somehting aboutt he text that may not have even been meant in the first place by the author. there are pros and cons to overlapping too many writings, some bad that comes of it is that you may come up with something that neither author menat int he first place; this is strangely also the pro, if you do start to come up with ideas that neither author menat in the first place then you are starting to come up with your own origianl ideas and that is always good.so i guess i should stop complainging about so much analysis.

In Shirley Jackson's The

In Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House I think that the "haunting" of Hill House is not the house itself, but a haunting inside Eleanor. As we have talked about in class Eleanor obviously has some issues. We discussed in class that on her way to Hill House she is day dreaming about random things, thinking about the house that she "lives in". On page 20 it describes her fantasy and the magic oleanders "Another day, she told them, another day I'll come back and break your spell." She also has perceptions that people are against her. Page 24 when she is at the diner she thinks that her coffee is poisoned and that the girl behind the counter and the man sitting are against her because they keep looking at each other and laughing. Page 50 Theo told her, "Don't be so afraid all the time." Then when Eleanor sees something on page 54. She does not believe Theo when she tells her that it is just a rabbit. I think that she has so many thoughts in her head and she convinces herself and others that there is something going on in the house and that is why they begin to think that they hear or see things. I know that when I am home by myself, if I hear something I think that it is something that it actually is not.

I think that applying theory to other's literature could be detrimental. I think that an author writes what they want and what they want their audience to get out of the literature. I think that if you look too far into things it could not be what the author actually intended.

wwolpert, I couldent agree

wwolpert, I couldent agree with you more. It is all about what the Author wants you to get out of it and looking to far into it could probably lead you down stray paths leaving you wiht a false sense of meaning for the work.

I agree with your entire

I agree with your entire first paragraph about the "haunting" inside Eleanor because she seems to be the only one experiencing such traumatic events. I also agree that authors do write what they want and that reader do tend to dig too deep. But I also think that is what books are intended for - to get your meaning out of it - because the author is not there to tell you its wrong or not.

Disagree

I disagree about theory being detrimental. When an author writes a piece of work, s/he has to expect that there will be many different interpretations. The reader is not necessarily always going to be on the same page in terms of understanding the text the way the author intended, and the author should take that into consideration.

I agree with you that when

I agree with you that when an author writes, they SHOULD be expecting many different interpretations, expecially when they leave it as "open" for interpretations as Shirley Jackson has with Hill House.

meh

when i first thought about it, i was in agreement with you about the application of literature to other literature...then i thought about it more an i came up with the fact that even if the author never meant it, wh should that stop us from getting something more out of the text? it also forces us to come up with some original iddeas...which is always nice.

I think that the author's

I think that the author's meaning is important for the reader to get, but at the same time I don't think that it matters all that much what they intended for it to be. When you read something it is for your own personal satisfaction. You can get out of it whatever you want, whether that relates to your life, or it is just something that you are entertained with.

Freud in Hill House

Freud would have had a field day with Eleanor. It is hard to see a movie, before reading the book, because of connecting the characters to that movie. However, Eleanor was quite different. She never did fit in anywhere in her life, not even with her own family. It is hard to determine whether or not the house was haunted, because of the certain incidents that happened while they were there. The writing on the wall, the torn up clothes that mysteriously get better at the end of the book, the red paint (blood?), the shaking of doors and loud noises. Eleanor wanted friends, people she could get along with and feel like she belonged. Throughout the book she thought people were talking about her and laughing at her, and it seems that the characters in the book, who are supposed to be open-minded people, could be so close-minded about Eleanor. I think that Eleanor was not used to getting along with people, so she began to take it too far when she said she wanted to "follow Theodora home". I'm not sure how you can caterogize "person cathexis", does it have to be an outside energy that forces something mental to happen, or could it happen very easily, just like when Eleanor was upset about her name being written on the wall and she was hysterical, and Theodora used a technique, an emotional "energy" to make Eleanor upset so that she wouldn't be so hysterical. I might be taking cathexis completely wrong, but I think it can be interpreted in different ways. In the idea of cathexis being a physical thing, I cannot be sure. Eleanor was definitely frustrated in her life, and obviously in her love life. She had never had someone to truely care for her and adore everything she did, until she got to Hill House. Eleanor probably repressed desires for Theodora, but in the same instance she could have been completely disgusted with Theodora, so I think that Eleanor wasn't sure what she wanted at all, until Hill House.

****"Journey's end in lovers meeting", I thought about this passage a long time. A lover does not necessarily have to be a person. A lover could be an object, or perhaps even...a house. At the end of the book Eleanor was truely happy, she had found her "lover". Hill House made her alive inside, which could in turn, have made the house "alive".

 I think that theories are created for a reason. People want answers, so when there is not one anwser to a question or story, we make a theory about why or how or what happened. People want to know WHY that house in particular was haunted, and WHY Eleanor was the one would connected with Hill House. Freud with the unconscious and conscious. Eleanor was conscious of people around her, and how they looked at her, but when she went for a walk by herself, she daydreamed and fantasized about the oleanders and the lions. Theories help me understand a book, because if i had read this book on my own, I would not have understood the meanings and I would have missed some of the important things in the book.

I like your take on the

I like your take on the quote about 'journey's end in a lover's meeting'. I was trying to figure out what this was supposed to mean and I could see how with her being so lonely that she could have found something special in the house, that made her feel better. It also made me think about her being so childish; children play house a lot and talk to their dolls or whatever toy and think they have feelings and are alive. So maybe she's just that messed up to where she thinks of the house as being alive as well.

LONG FREAKIN' POST

It should be noted that of this writing I've yet to actually finish the book, so I could be totally wrong in my little theory of what could be happening.  To put it bluntly, I'm not entirely sure whether the house is really haunted or if Eleanor is a crazy whack job.  I don't think the whole thing is in Eleanor's head because a few of the haunted things have been witnessed by the others as well.  I mean there are some parts throughout the novel where I couldn't help but feel that Eleanor was imagining, hallucinating, or dreaming the haunted occurences, but there are a number of other occurances that contradict this, such as the violent knockings of bedroom doors and the cold draft that floats around the nursery's entrance.  At the same time this whole house could've easily been constructed to do all these types of scares, as has been hinted throughout the book.  The house's practical construction may just be making Eleanor crazy.  Since I'm supposed to pick a side, I'm going with the theory that the house is feeding off of Eleanor's sensitive psyche and projecting it throughout the house.  This would mean that I think the house is some type of spiritual entity, which I'm going to say is.  This could tie with cathexis, in which the house is reacting to Eleanor's negative energy and therefore leads to it doing crazy things.

On the subject of theory, I think depending on the text, theory should not be applied.  I think if a person takes the time to ponder a theory that may or may not be what the text is about then the enjoyment of reading it totally goes away.  The joy of reading quickly becomes a chore as the person takes the time to delve through every meaning in the text.  Not only that, but, unless the person personally speaks to the writer, there's the idea the person's theory is completely wrong.  But, you say, that's the cool thing about analyzing the story like that, providing all these far-out, bullshit theories and not having to talk to the writer about whether that's really true or not!  But no, it's not, because who is to really know that the writer made this text specifically for someone to analyze the crap out of it?  We could all just be wasting our time.  Unless it's fairly obvious the writer is putting in all these hidden messages so that a college class can have a massive discussion that leads to a totally chaotic classroom (I actually found Flannery O'Connor's work to be very deep and worth the time to analyze), I don't normally see the point.

I think you have a good point

I agree. I do not know to what extent the haunting is in her head, and what is actually real. Like you said, in some cases, all of the people in the room are hearing the noises and feeling the cold. The only way I could see there being no haunting present would be if the person telling us the story was so biased towards Eleanor that they were twisting what happened to make it appear that she was just not a psycho bitch.

I really like the fact that

I really like the fact that you are thinking differently about the book from everyone else in the class. I too believed that the house couuld still be haunted and that some instances in the book could lead you to believe that way. Stick to your guns and do not side with the entire class when you think there is some other meaning.

I think that subconsciously,

I think that subconsciously, the whole purpose that a writer writes is to envoke further thinking.  They may tell you that they write to envoke feelings or it just makes them happy but i think that in the end that author still wants you look into their sole through their writing, and think about them a little more.  Maybe it's not what the autor had intended you to think about, but i'm sure if they were sitting next to you they would galdly discuss any other possible interpretaions of their work

Analyzing

I agree that analyzing certain books are not worth the time and effort. Flannery O'Connor obviously did leave a lot of stuff for people to ponder about, maybe not in a classroom, but defintely to think about things that one normally wouldn't.

I agree with you on the fact

I agree with you on the fact that the house is feeding off of eleanor.  You make a valid point when saying other people witnessed some of the things too and again the house could've just been constructed that way.  Because the house is at an odd angle, it would make sense that the doors close on their own or maybe the hinges or something are just loose, it happens to my door and my apartment isn't haunted.  As for the cold chill, I think again that could just be where the air conditioning or whatever is located so you feel the cold breeze right there.

I also agree with your statment on the theory.  If it takes someone time to think up a theory, this defeats the purpose of reading for enjoyment because then whoever is reading will also have to take time and think of what the author is trying to get at and forget about what the book should really be about.

I also agree about the

I also agree about the feeding off of eleanor. I think that she has convinced everyone in the house that something is wrong and that is why so many things have been twisted.

Really long post, perhaps not too coherent

Disclaimer: If this statement at all says Janie, please replace with Eleanor… I think I caught them all but I’m exhausted so I could have missed one.

 In The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson, characteristics of gothic text can be seen. In this text the main character Eleanor is fighting between two realities. One she understands and can perceive the other is beyond her reach. During bouts of conscious thought Eleanor understands what is going on around her. However, Eleanor also struggles with a fantasy life that she can not realize. It is not until the end of the story that Eleanor perhaps even shows a hint of understanding that there are two sides to her own life. This is the main struggle described throughout the novel and also throughout Eleanor’s life.

            Eleanor is conscious and aware of her surroundings some of the time. During these moments Eleanor is a very depressed, anxious person. This Eleanor says things like “’I’ve never been wanted anywhere.’” (209) This side of Eleanor knows nothing about herself other than what she has become; a slave to her mother and other family member’s ideas of what she should be. Often this reality becomes more than Eleanor can handle, thus she lives in a life of fairytales and lies.

            Eleanor reverts to a life of fairytale and lives when she can no longer deal with the realities of her life. An example of Eleanor’s fairytale life first comes to the reader as Eleanor drives to Hill House; “I will go into a sweet garden , with fountains and low benches…” (20) Eleanor dislikes her real life so much she takes objects or stories from other people’s lives and makes them her own. She does this so well, she no longer understands that she is lying and these things become a part of her subconscious life.

            In the end Eleanor finally shows a glimpse at the fact that perhaps she understands that she is leading a double life. The first glimpse occurs when Eleanor is lying in the front yard; “’Eleanor, Eleanor,’ and she heard it inside and outside her head; this was a call she had been listening for her whole life.” (215) Eleanor is in her fairytale life when this occurs and it seems she is finally realizing that she is living a double life. When Eleanor wakes up and runs from the other guest of Hill House she states the following: “Eleanor clung to the door and laughed until tears came into her eyes; what fools they are, she though; we trick them so easily.” (230) Using the word “we” Eleanor let’s on that she understands she has multiple personalities living out their own realities.  

            Object cathexis is a bunch of hogwash. Based on the knowledge known today of the properties of energy there is no way a person could “think” energy into an object. The house is not haunted either. Everything that happens that could potentially be contributed to a “haunting” can be explained in some other way. When the house says “Help Eleanor come home” or when this is found written on the walls, Eleanor is operating in her fairytale world, and her normal operating state of consciousness is calling back to her.

 

            Applying other individual’s theories to a piece of literary work is not a bad or good thing necessarily. Depending upon how this application is approached affects whether the application should be considered a good or bad thing. The application could provide better insight into what is going on or perhaps a different viewpoint. However, caution should be used when applying such a theory so as to avoid reading too much into the text, that isn’t really there, to make the book fit the theory. Also, trying to apply theory to early in the reading of a literary piece could lead to a limitation of free thought regarding what the reader truly feels is going on. If the reader feels that the theory is the “right” way to see the piece, they could potentially disregard any theories they may have reached on their own.

Calling back to her...

When you said that she's calling to herself when she hears "eleanor help us" throughout the story is a great thought.  It opens the doors for new thoughts and opinions to come about.

Not Haunted

I do not believe that Hill House is haunted but I do believe that Eleanor is coming up with all of these manifestations but it may not be just her traumatic past. Eleanor has had a difficult past filled with many traumatic experiences, but at the same time she has never really felt the way she feels in Hill House. In the very first chapter Eleanor realizes that she has never driven this far at any one time in her entire life, "She had never driven far alone before."(p 16) Even the drive to get to Hill House is marked with many firsts for Eleanor. Once she gets to Hill House I believe "person cathexis" starts to take place inside Eleanor. She begins to smell and hear things that the other people can not smell or hear. When all of the other roommates go into the library and up the tower, Eleanor refuses because she can smell something that the others can't registar. "I can't go up there....cold air of mold and earth which rushed at her," she is already showing that she has senses above normal human beings. So according to Freud she is experiencing personal cathexis and there is plenty of image cathexis inside the house as well. When she first gets into her blue room she looks at the wallpaper and thinks of small children crying. "...lighten the air of the blue room in Hill House with a dainty wallpaper...leaving only the faintest hint of its existence, like an almost inaudible echo of sobbing far away." (p. 40)

Theory should be applied to text in every regard except for when someone is trying to prove a point. Someone elses theory, such as Freud's, should be looked at by a reader and recognized. But, when someone takes a theory seperate from the original text and applies it while trying to prove a point, then theory is being used inappropriately. I'm not saying that using this type of theory in class isn't ok because we are trying to learn. Its when two people are talking and one thinks that a seperate theory is ok to apply to a text written at a different time and place. The two can not always match up and using someone elses theory to explain your own is not using theory the correct way.

smells

I like that you noticed that she smelled things the others didn't. Why did she smell something so awful that it made her nauesous, yet the others couldn't? Its interesting and it helps to stop and think things through so that one could understand the meaning of that particular detail.

I agree with you that

I agree with you that Eleanor is making up all these haunted occurences.  There are many times when her senses out do the others, such as her smelling something or hearing something that no one else hears.  She's just had such a troubled past that the smallest things scare her or make her worry so she can easily talk herself into something.  For instance, the voices she hears and things, she just talks herself into it even though no one else heard them.

Not a haunted house...

My interpretation of this story is that the house is not haunted at all; I believe that Eleanor's childhood trauma is what is causing the events to occur.  Because we see the events from Eleanor's point of view, we do not know what, exactly, the other characters are experiencing, or if they are even experiencing anything at all.  On page 215 when Eleanor is "held tight and safe" and hears her name repeated, only she has this experience, while the others are unaware.  On page 228, Eleanor slips out of the bedroom and hears her mother calling her name, and throughout the whole horrifying experience of her almost killing herself, she acts childish, ("laughing, running soundlessly") as if she were reliving a scene in her childhood.  The same goes for the picnic scene that she "witnesses" on page 176-177, she sees a family with a puppy, while Theodora runs, terrified.  I think that it is Eleanor's trauma that causes these events to be amplified, and only she feels each event as deeply; the others are able to let them go as somewhat small occurances, while Eleanor internalizes them and allows the house to become a part of her. 

I'm not sure if I agree that theory should be applied to literary texts.  I believe that many works were written as pure entertainment, and that analyzing them too much causes the work to lose its entertainment value.  If the author did have an ulterior motive for a work, it was probably written with a completely different purpose, so I feel that it is presumptuous to apply an unrelated theory with a literary text.  While applying a theory might supply a framework for reading, it might also skew the perspective to one specific theory and destroy the imagination of the reader.  So, it is in my belief that novels should be read for the enjoyment of the reader, and if he or she reads more into it, all the more power to them. 

I agree with you! I don't

I agree with you! I don't think that books were written as things so much to be analizes as they were to be read for entertainment.  I really don't think that authors are going to hide something from us. I think that they tell us what they want to and don't tell us what we don't need to know!

I agree

I agree with kkirtley that novels should be read for the enjoyment of the reader, and if the person reads more into it than good for them. Novels should not push on theory over another though because so many people have different opinions. Also who is to say that one theory is right.

I never

we are seeing things from Eleanor's eyes and i never thought about the fact that we don't actually know that these people are experiencing the things that Eleanor says they are.  They could really just be sitting around doing nothing, and thinking Eleanor is just crazy.  Good point.

I never really thought of

I never really thought of Eleanor and the house becoming one, but now that you mention, I can see it.  Maybe Eleanor, in her own weird and disturbed way, is embracing the house, allowing her to be with the house due to how lonely and traumatic she is?

Your thoughts on theory in

Your thoughts on theory in literature are practically spot on to my thoughts.  If a person is reading fiction then there should be some entertainment value in it or else a person should be reading non-fiction instead.  Well said.

I like how you tied in

I like how you tied in Eleanor's childhood. It made me think about the rocks that supposedly fell on her house when she was a child. It makes me wonder if that really even happened. She could have made that story up as well. She truly has the imagination of a child. Throughout the story we are reminded of children in the way that the girls act, speak and think. I also believe that Theo may be the sister that Eleanor never had - someone to play with instead of someone she views as controlling.